Wednesday, February 08, 2006

Replies Updates

It’s my intention that this blog be Vernon’s words and Vernon’s interaction with those who choose to write to him. His replies to your current questions should be in the mail soon. I’ll post them when they arrive.

88 Comments:

Blogger AnnieIreneKat said...

Is Vernon reading any more letters as of today? I just sent one. I'm a 19 year old college student in Canada and have a passion for the abolishment of capital punishment. I have chosen to write a 20 page paper on this topic and would love to hear Vernon's voice and incorporate it in the paper.

Innocent or guilty, no murder should ever be rectified by another murder. It is as simple as that. People say that if it were my family I would feel differently, but the difference is I do not believe in murder. Not for the victims and equally not for the killer. For absolutely no one. Period.

I believe that the murders of the victims should have never occurred, and justice for them is not taking the life of one more person. It only creates another injustice. Death is not a simple penalty, it is a life sentence that America as a whole is choosing. The killer chooses to kill because he is sick and chooses wrong over right. America should step up and be a country; a country that isn't sick and momentarily choosing wrong over right. It should show that it has more substance than a killer. That it possesses the mind and the humanity not to imitate what it so constantly tries to stop.

2/09/2006  
Blogger Titophe said...

AnnieIreneKat: I agree with you so much!
Titophe

2/09/2006  
Blogger john said...

Does Vernon know that he has a lot of supporters? I hope so !

The death penalty is one big "projection" of anger. It is not a deterent and whatever it is, it is cruel.

In Vernon's case in particular, as you were legally manipulated into showing "remorse" and a witness not included at trial said you were NOT the killer, NO ONE has a right to kill you when there is even the slightest shadow of doubt over your guilt. Or what does that make America? Just? Not bloody likely.

Keep fighting Vernon, there are some who believe in you

John, the psychologist.

2/09/2006  
Blogger jess said...

annierirenekat....i so agree with you on this to a point. The part about no one should get the death penalty, thats where i disagree. There are a few people out there that deserve the death penalty but for crimes i choose not to say. I am also a college student who has to research Vernon's case for an assignement.

Please feel free to respond and i will try to get back to you as soon as possible.

2/09/2006  
Blogger john said...

Ah jess you thought I was trying to "get "expert RN's" goat" didn't you? Please re-read and note that far from doing what is asked of her, and she is not an executioner, she stated that she would be "THRILLED to VOLUNTEER" quote unquote to attach the lines that would kill Vernon. Far from "getting anybody's goat" I questioned her enthusiasm to kill when a "medical professional" as she describes herself is supposed to preserve life, not kill. And certainly not kill with a "thrill." I am a medical professional myself, and I find it odious that a medical professional is thrilled to VOLUNTEER. I hope you now understand that I am not goading anyone. It is a professional comment.

2/09/2006  
Blogger Hladun http://www.myspace.com/erickam1 said...

Does he know that with technology today...they can look at the video taken from the woman's shop and figure out how tall that man was? I'm not sure I know what the procedure is called? Digital imaging maybe?

2/09/2006  
Blogger Bierce said...

Vernon keep fighting! Here, in Argentina, South America, you have a lot of supporters.

2/09/2006  
Blogger English Blogger (Davie B) said...

Hi Again Vernon.
Please be assured you are in Prayers here in the UK. The Lord is with you Vernon and will stay by your side always. I know at times you must get so fed up. Please remember this poem:-

One night a man had a dream. He dreamed he was walking along the beach with the LORD.

Across the sky flashed scenes from his life. For each scene he noticed two sets of footprints in the sand: one belonging to him, and the other to the LORD.

When the last scene of his life flashed before him, he looked back at the footprints in the sand. He noticed that many times along the path of his life there was only one set of footprints.

He also noticed that it happened at the very lowest and saddest times in his life.This really bothered him and he questioned the LORD about it:
"LORD, you said that once I decided to follow you, you'd walk with me all the way. But I have noticed that during the most troublesome times in my life, there is only one set of footprints. I don't understand why when I needed you most you would leave me."

The LORD replied:
"My son, my precious child,I love you and I would never leave you. During your times of trial and suffering, when you see only one set of footprints, it was then that I carried you."

2/09/2006  
Blogger jess said...

Well John I am sorry if I worded my self wrong there but I don't see why you think its a bad thing to get excited about a person's job? I am sure in your profession that there has been a time that you got excited or voluntered to do something to help someone. In "expert RN's" case it is her job to hook someone up with the lethal injection. I personally don't have the heart to do something like that and that could be why I am not in the nursing field. I have been a CNA and a MED AIDE but thats all the farther I will ever go with that. And are you saying that if you were a RN and you had to hook up the lines for a lethal injection that you would tell the govenor or who ever said you are the one thats going to put the IV lines in NO?? Have you stoped to think about maybe thats her job and no matter what she isn't going to loose it over not hooking the lines up to someone?? There seems to be alot to that story from her and we may not know it all I personally don't want to know the whole story I am just looking at it from my stand point. We all have our own opinions and we are entitled to them regardless of who we piss off or hurt by them. This is a free country as far as free speech goes so I am not saying that your opinion is right or wrong nor am I saying any one else's is. I am just saying if Vernon is meant to die then GOD will take him no matter what and in any form of death. We all have our "judgement day" and there is nothing we can do to prolong it or stop it. Obvisouly GOD is not ready to take Vernon since he got a temporary stay of execution.

2/11/2006  
Blogger john said...

Hello Jess, thanks for your reply. Expert RN did not say that she was an executioner. She did not say that was her job. She said she would be "thrilled to VOLUNTEER" !! A medical professional whose usual job is to save life, not kill, should never be "thrilled" to kill, or, I would suggest, there is something wrong with them, isn't there? I am "thrilled" when a patient of mine does not commit suicide, when they had, previous to therapy, tried to do so. I am "thrilled" when a victim of child abuse can lead a productive life after therapy. As I said before, one thing is to do a job efficiently, another thing is to be "thrilled" to kill. That is a feeling I cannot equate with medical ethos.

I believe Vernon got a stay because a witness, who was excluded from his original trial, said he was NOT the killer she saw.

If I were the executioner, I assure you I would protest at killing someone if there was even the slightest realistic shadow of doubt regarding their guilt !! To kill an innocent man is murder isn't it !! Even in the Military, if a soldier is given an illegal command, they can refuse to carry out the order without further consequence.

My only concern was that you did not think I was deliberately "getting her goat." I simply questioned her "thrill" aspect coming from a "medical professional." Personally, I would never put myself in a position of "executioner" ! There are plenty of medical jobs available without the need to do that !!

2/12/2006  
Blogger Jim Goetzinger said...

John as usual you have twisted everyones words to suit your purpose.

To everyone else don't think the Death Penalty is a murder, think of it as population control for assholes, freaks and the others of their ilk.

2/12/2006  
Blogger English Blogger (Davie B) said...

Jim Goetzinger said...
John as usual you have twisted everyones words to suit your purpose.

To everyone else don't think the Death Penalty is a murder, think of it as population control for assholes, freaks and the others of their ilk...



You really are a complete asshole aren't you Jim, so you are next for the injection? I might even be for the death penalty then.

2/13/2006  
Blogger john said...

To English blogger Thanks !! You took the words right out of my mouth ! Anyway people of Jim's calibre usually do have difficulty stringing words together in a sentence of grammatical logic as seen in his past blogs and therefore his grammar reflects his mind ! A disordered, disjointed illogical string, designed to offend, and without argument. He has no argument for and against with a conclusion, no mention of innocent people wrongly convicted. If I remember correctly, Jim is the blogger who thought he could "hunt down" and kill people he doesn't like and escape the law himself because the Army would protect him Ha Ha Ha !! That does not say much for the integrity and legality of the Army does it?!! How ridiculous !!

2/13/2006  
Blogger john said...

To English blogger Hey, if you really want to have a laugh, read his outrageous comment to me, and my reply, which at the moment are the last two entries on the web page.

2/13/2006  
Blogger Titophe said...

Hi,

Looking at your link related to 2006 scheduled executions, on today Clyde Smith, Jr. is supposed to be the new victim of deathpenalty.
Don't know if it's going to happen actually, but I'm really sad... Just try to think about what's going on in the mindset of people taking such decisions..

2/15/2006  
Blogger john said...

Hello titophe. Yes I feel the same. It takes a very hard-skinned type to authorise an execution. The killing of a person tied down to be killed in cold blood. Not exactly brave are they, these executioners? It is the non-military equivalent of the military killing a tied-up a P.O.W., an act prohibited by the Geneva Convention. Look at Jim. A guy who claims to be a "decorated" soldier, but who did not care whether Vernon is innocent or not. Kill him anyway, advocates Jim. That can be the mindset of an executioner. A person who, if he were a soldier, would be committing an internationally recognised criminal act if he did the same to a tied-up enemy.

2/15/2006  
Blogger English Blogger (Davie B) said...

I'll say this again, I am totally amazed, a 1st World country claiming that the Middle East is barbaric and Sadam Hussain is evil, can then Kill someone for crimes they didn't even commit.

How can a country advocate the putting of drugs into someone veins and let them suffocate to Death? As far as I know two wrongs do not make a right, never have and never will.

2/15/2006  
Blogger Titophe said...

Any news about Clyde Smith, Jr. are welcome. From France where I live, very difficult to get anything.
I'm not religious, so can't pray, but think a lot...

2/15/2006  
Blogger jess said...

John,, sorry again if i am wording my self wrong. I agree with you about the "thrilling" part of injecting someone if i was in the position of "expert RN" i would do the job simply because i have a family to take care of. I would not enjoy doing it nor would it be a thrill.

Jim, if someone can prove their innocene to for a crime would you still think they should be executed?? I have to agree with John and English on this one you are one sick and twiseted ass hole. But from what i have read from your blogs Jim, all i have to say is this come to nebraska and sit in the electric chair it hasn't been used in a few years and i am sure we would love to have you make sure its still working.

Back to John, I would rather push the injection through a needle then be the one who has to deliver the electricity for the electric chair here in nebraska since we are the only state that i know of that still has that but i don't belive a man should die by any means if there is a shadow of a doubt that he can be proven innocent. I really hope this witness in Vernon's case can be brought up in court and if she can then the courts will have to at the very least throw out the death sentence.

I also belive that we are taking this blog site for granted simply because there is no other inmate that has this oppurtunity to get his message to the public or countries that are replying here. Some of the bloggers on here need to take their hatered to another blog site or create a blog site for haters. The ones that are sitting at home/work whereever that are supporting Vernon are using this site to show our support not our hate.

2/15/2006  
Blogger gsryoga said...

Jess, My Friend:

The reality is that there are far more nursing positions available today than nurses. In fact, most nursing schools affiliated with medical centers are offering scholarships to potential RNs, rich or poor, just to fill the void. So to take a RN job that requires playing executioner in order to meet your financial needs is a moot point.

With all the positions available throughout the country, to take the prisoner’s executioner's position is solely by choice! This means you are clearly not the most loving person in the world! That is why doctors are prohibited by medical ethics to participate in an execution.

And to rationalize it on finances won't cut it spiritually. Can you imagine trying to explain to God: "Sure I murdered someone, but it was okay because the state gave me permission and I needed the money" (LOL).

Love,
Glenn

2/15/2006  
Blogger gsryoga said...

Titophe:

No news yet on Clyde. But I wouldn't count on a reprieve -- not for a Texas execution. The sad truth is that Texas has executed more people since Capital Punishment was reinstated in the US in 1976 than all other 49 states combined. Our current president, who was governor of Texas for 6 years, was known at the time as "The Texecutioner." The state is a redneck haven and these people really get off on that kind of stuff!

All we can do is pray!

Peace,
Glenn

2/15/2006  
Blogger gsryoga said...

Jim Goetzinger:

You seem to be making enemies of our English friends on this site. Might I suggest, you come from the heart and not the liver when you post comments here.

This is not to judge or criticize you, but rather to help. I honestly wish the best for you and all human beings – no matter what!

Glenn

2/15/2006  
Blogger GLENN REINER said...

Hey Guys,

Just started a new website. My first blog in on this issue. Please read it and comment.

Thanks

2/15/2006  
Blogger GLENN REINER said...

Silly me! My blogsite is http://glennreiner.blogspot.com/

2/15/2006  
Blogger john said...

Thanks Jess for your reply. All sins forgiven !!! And thanks for your support. "Jim" is a real pain.(Have you seen his profile ? something to the effect of "kill them all and let God sort it out.") In common sense psychology, he's nuts. He has violence in both his heart and liver, gsryoga, !! There are a small number of hard show-offs who get a kick out of being as offensive as possible and this blog site is not the place to do it !! And I share your horror of the electric chair. I've just spent the night here in Spain going through Titophe's link (above) (Thanks for putting it here, Titophe; I had never heard of them before) which is the "Death Penalty Information Centre" and they do a good job in fighting this disgusting "toaster." The DPIC link records one very moving comment by Bill Wiseman who was the man who pushed the concept of lethal injection into law in the first place. I re-quote "I'm sorry for what I did....capital punishment is wrong and self destructive..." He has become a wise man !

2/15/2006  
Blogger Titophe said...

To gsryoga
I've spent years in working with a Texan company, travelling over there at many times. I can understand what you say so much!

2/16/2006  
Blogger GLENN REINER said...

Titophe, English Blogger:

Thank you so much for being the first two to comment on my Blog regarding my piece on the Death Penalty.

Titophe: I have Blogger's email address, but I don't have yours. I have looked up your site, and I love the layout. The French excites me. I do have a computer translator. Would love to communicate with you. Please send your email to gsryoga@bellsouth.net.

Peace,
Glenn

2/16/2006  
Blogger Daydreamer of Oz said...

This is classic! English blogger told me on a previous post that he wouldn't even believe in the death penalty if it was one of his family members that was taken from him. Someone so 'full of love & endless prayers'-then goes on to say:
You really are a complete asshole aren't you Jim, so you are next for the injection? I might even be for the death penalty then.
What would Jesus have to say to Jim?
The hypocrisy never fails to amaze me....

2/17/2006  
Blogger john said...

ToDaydreamer of oz. No, English Blogger is right. The hipocracy is that Jim Grotz has been flashing his military supremacy around trying to impress everybody and show off and I've caught him out. Jim Grotz is an out and out liar.

2/17/2006  
Blogger English Blogger (Davie B) said...

Daydreamer of Oz said...
This is classic! English blogger told me on a previous post that he wouldn't even believe in the death penalty if it was one of his family members that was taken from him. Someone so 'full of love & endless prayers'-then goes on to say:
You really are a complete asshole aren't you Jim, so you are next for the injection? I might even be for the death penalty then.
What would Jesus have to say to Jim?
The hypocrisy never fails to amaze me....


"Dreamer" Irony is totally lost on you isn't it? There is a bid diference between hyppocrasy and Irony, maybe a lesson in English Language would help "Dreamer"


Jim says "To everyone else don't think the Death Penalty is a murder, think of it as population control for assholes, freaks and the others of their ilk..."


So I said "You really are a complete asshole aren't you Jim, so you are next for the injection? I might even be for the death penalty then.

I was using his term of phraseology, I was also using sarcasm and irony.

Here is my responce "Dreamer" from Glens blog.

I think you are the one with issues "Dreamer" As someone who cannot understand humour or forgiveness, I feel you are very sad person with some very serious issues.

Well blow me I called you Liz, that means I made a small mistake,of course you have never made any!! shucks I had better start and support the death penalty!!!
(again this is humour)

Humour is an amazing thing "Dreamer", it relieves stress, it makes you smile and sometimes even laugh, try it sometime, please ;-)

My true colours "Dreamer" are "everyperson is equal no matter who they are or what they have done, it doesn't matter what Colour they are, what religion or Creed they belong too or what Sex they are, God made everyone in his likeness"

Only God will Judge you on the final day and he knows your true heart. Knowing this I will never support "The Death Penalty" and I will always do my best to suport and help anyone in need. I will Pray for anyone who asks. I will do my best to love my neighbour.

"Dreamer" please open your Heart and let in a little Love, it is an amazing thing.

God Bless, and please smile and you never know you may just get irony one day ;-)

2/17/2006  
Blogger Daydreamer of Oz said...

My response to EB from Glen's blog:
EB & Titophe:
You have, in classic fashion, made a lot of assumptions about me. Whatever you *think* of me is once again your personal issue which I could not care less about. You clearly feel that making a personal attack on me is in some way going to win your argument. I'm getting rather tired of your meaningless commentary (in fact I didn't even address my comments to you). You are incapable of seeing the hypocrisy you're displaying & the only reason no one else is pointing it out to you is because they agree with your perspective. If, at any point in the future, you have some meaningful point to make (& become capable of making it to me without attacking me), then at that point I will respond to you. Until then, I am finished with this conversation.

2/17/2006  
Blogger English Blogger (Davie B) said...

Attacking you?

You really do have issues don't you Dreamer? I am not attacking you, I am using debate to answer your argument against me!!

You have attacked me here on Meet Vernon and on Glenn's site saying I am a hypocrite, I have given you reasoned answers, I have stated I have used Irony and sarcasm, it isn't my fault you don't get them is it?

Again, I will say take an English Language lesson or two. Please explain why I am a hypocrite? Because I use the English Language to reply to total idiot who thinks anyone who doesn't agree with him is an Asshole and should be killed, so I say he is an asshole, that is using his vernacular, and saying he maybe next and "I Might" then agree with death penalty. That is sarcasm and Irony. It is ironic he would be next, and sarcasm because I am call him what he calls everyone else.

2/17/2006  
Blogger john said...

To English Blogger You're right, and Jim Grotz will end up on death row if he pursues his other psychotic stated interest of killing people he does not like.

2/17/2006  
Blogger john said...

English Blogger I tried to post a message on your new site but it doesn't seem to be working.The message does not go through.

2/18/2006  
Blogger English Blogger (Davie B) said...

John, Thanks all fixed now

2/19/2006  
Blogger john said...

Hi English Blogger, it works now Thanks !

2/19/2006  
Blogger Jim Goetzinger said...

John how is it that I will end up on Death Row if I have my way of killing people I don't like?

I have never said that in or out of context, I just think that the government should kill those that have killed others and stop wasting my time and money.

Do you know how much it costs the tax paying public to hold a person on death row a year?

It costs roughly 100,000.00 a year.
Now first thing you would say is, well he is innocent, innocent of what?

Facts that are undisputed:

He was there with a gun in his hand.

Witnessess have sworn in court that when the shooting started they ducked for cover and the only witness for him failed to show up until 25 years later.

DNA evidence has his fingerprints and bodily fluid on it from the murder weapon.

He has admitted in court he was there and took place whether in the shooters capacity or not.

Lets just say that he was not the shooter, they both deserve to die, conspiracy in a federal case also brings about the death penalty.

So you can kiss my ass when you call me a war monger that shows off and doesn't know the facts, I live in Baltimore and I have a family member that is in the highest position of the courts and I got to see the documents regarding this case, it is pretty open and shut, jerkoff. So before you run your mouth to another person on here make sure they do not have access to information that will blow your BS out of the water. DICK

2/19/2006  
Blogger john said...

Good grief ! Killer Grotz has woken up again.

1) You've got a mouth like a sewer.
You can't put a single argument together without insulting people and you deserve all the antagonism you got.

2) Learn to read your own scribbles. You have clearly stated you wanted to "hunt down and "make it public and messy" so don't come the softy because we know what you are.

3) "Justice" does not execute when there is even the slightest shadow of doubt over guilt. That you are so violent is not my problem.

2/19/2006  
Blogger john said...

Killer Grotz, Yes of course you're related to the highest court bods. Probably a Bush relative. Just like you're a big shot soldier.
Ha Ha !! As the bottom section of the site got chopped off to make room, you probably didn't read what one of my old SAS mates who phoned me the other night from England said. When I had a laugh and read out some of your statements he said you "would have been weeded out straight away RTU'd Mentally Unstable !! "Public and messy" you said. Special Forces don't leave calling cards. No professional Army wants someone who'd bugger up "hearts and minds." You haven't got the intelligence to be a professional soldier. You might have been a craphat but that's it. Special Forces material you are not. I doubt you even know what RTU means. It means Returned To Unit as unfit for Special Forces. SAS, the regiment you mentioned, and I am VERY familiar with them,thankyou, are the "thinking man's" army. That's your problem !

2/19/2006  
Blogger Daydreamer of Oz said...

Is anyone going to dispute Jim's undisputed facts? The personal attacks, while entertaining, are not actually serving a purpose.

2/19/2006  
Blogger john said...

Daydreamer Oh yes they are. I'm pissed off with his violence and threats to hunt down and kill people he doesn't like and then hide under the skirts, and his pathetic insults. He is unable to put a single argument together without calling people an "arsehole" or "candy ass." There are some educated people here, but If that's the quality of argument you want you can stick it. And I will kick back each time. OK? I argue with argument, not a tirade of abuse.

2/19/2006  
Blogger john said...

P.S. I don't waste time with liars. I take the piss out of them.

2/19/2006  
Blogger john said...

Ah now Jimbo is calling me a "moron with a PHD" Fine. Case in point. There's no point having a serious argument with that line of "evidence". My SAS mate is right. Jim's intelligence rating is zero. "Oh it's not a pleasant feeling" big macho full-of-bullshit Jim declared regarding facing incoming fire. Diddums sailor boy. Poor little weed. If you don't like the heat, get out of the kitchen. You are pathetic.

2/20/2006  
Blogger Daydreamer of Oz said...

John:
I'm not saying Jim is communicating in an appropriate way. In fact if you read the things I've written, you'll see this is exactly what I oppose. The technical name for this is an ad hominem argument-which is about all I seem to encounter around here. I think you're both behaving like children.
However, to my knowledge, the facts pertaining to this case are as Jim stated. I haven't heard anyone dispute these facts & I was simply asking if anyone was going to because I watched the clemency video & read the research included in the consensus statement. None of it in anyway suggested to me that he is innocent....merely that he could have had better legal representation (like most defendants) and that the prosecution may have been more likely to seek the death penalty because of the race of the victims.
If your intention is to sway people (as I can't imagine any other reason you're on here giving your dissertations) then I suggest you stop lowering yourself to Jim's level.

2/20/2006  
Blogger john said...

Daydreamer I'm behaving like a child? Sure? When English Blogger tried to explain he had been using "irony" all you could do was get in a huff and say you had "finished with the conversation." O.K. If you are going to say I am "childish" for kicking back against being called a "moron" an "arsehole" and more, then I have finished with my conversation with you. By the way, the first thing you learn when you do a degree is that there is no such thing as "un disputed facts" You interpret using evidence which is different.

2/20/2006  
Blogger john said...

Vernon has a new trial review. I am not going to pre-judge it. It's not my place to do so. Jim tried to paint me as naiive claiming I had never been under fire. I have been, defeating his argument, for which he calls me an "arsehole", a"moron" with a "candy ass" attitude etc. I am not naiive and if someone launches a tirade of abuse, I can fight fire with fire and take the piss out of them. When he comes up with something more intelligent, I will "respond" to use your words. While he continues his abuse I will show him up for the cowardly weed he is. OK?

2/20/2006  
Blogger Daydreamer of Oz said...

Everyone:
Wouldn't you say for a highly trained psychotherapist that John seems to be extremely hypersensitive? Hmmm....
In any case, I repeat the question that I asked & received multiple ad hominem answers to:Is anyone going to dispute the facts of this case as Jim has outlined?

2/20/2006  
Blogger john said...

Daydreamer I can be as sensitive as I am insulted and you have avoided answering my question. mmmm most interesting

2/20/2006  
Blogger Daydreamer of Oz said...

The only question you have asked me is ok? regarding your personal attacks on Jim. If you're asking me if that's ok with me then the answer is yes that's fine with me. This behaviour speaks to your character alone.
If you had a question which I have been meant to receive subliminally then I'm afraid it hasn't come through yet.

2/20/2006  
Blogger Daydreamer of Oz said...

P.S. There is such thing as an undisputed fact.....It is a fact which no one has yet to dispute ;)

2/20/2006  
Blogger john said...

Daydreamer I see other question marks in what I wrote and the answer is...? I have also made my point I don't need to repeat it. And go on repeating it. Vernon is getting a new trial review. I will not pre-judge it. A trial witness has stated he was not the killer she saw, backed up by CCT film that was excluded from the original trial. Pre-judging a new trial is a pointless activity I think.

2/20/2006  
Blogger john said...

The "facts" are being disputed. That's the whole point

2/20/2006  
Blogger john said...

And regard "personal attacks" Jim is the one who attacked me with insults, and not happy with that, more insults and more. That does not speak for my character Daydreamer other than I don't take nonsense from anyone, particularly those who lie

2/20/2006  
Blogger Daydreamer of Oz said...

John:
What speaks to your character is the way you respond to attacks. I never said I supported Jim's exchange with you....you cannot blame Jim for the way you're carrying on.

I did not come on here to attack anyone or defend myself to anyone. As I stated previously, whatever anyone else thinks of me is their personal issue & I couldn't care less. But I'm also not claiming to be a mental health professional...

By the way, the answer to all your questions is yes. I found the other two:
Daydreamer I'm behaving like a child? Sure?
& now I will leave you to attack me in whatever vicious way takes your fancy.

2/20/2006  
Blogger john said...

emotionally manipulative, aren't you.

2/20/2006  
Blogger UnderCoverAnna said...

People like Jim scare me to death. Their attitudes remind me so much on Adolf Hitler's slogans: all criminals are inferior creatures ... of course that claim has been expanded over time to a certain race, people with certain political views and just anyone who just wasn't welcome in the Nazi society. Hitler, too, needed the military to substitute for his personal weaknesses.
I would like to know what made Jim feel the way he does. Why is he capable of hating intensively enough to stoop down to the same level his targets are operating on?
((Jim)) there is something so wrong with that attitude.

2/20/2006  
Blogger UnderCoverAnna said...

I am glad the case will be reviewed. I've read the clemency appeal, and I am shocked by the negligence of the former defense counsel and the sheming, manipulative behavior of the prosecution. (That is, of course, in case the accusations should be justified.)

2/20/2006  
Blogger john said...

Hello undercoveranna Oh I asked him the question of why he was so violent and his reply was that I am an "asshole."

2/20/2006  
Blogger john said...

It's no good asking the likes of Jim anything. People like Jim and indeed Daydreamer work at an emotional manipulation level. There is no argument for cruelty. All they have is manipulation and insults. Daydreamer never answered my point about not pre-judging the trial review either. She calls me "childish" for kicking back at being called a "moran" and Jim calles me a "moran" Fine. They both have the same problem. Dishonesty.

2/20/2006  
Blogger UnderCoverAnna said...

((AnnieIene..)) I couldn't agree more.

Although I cannot claim to have any "love" or respect for killers, I have the greatest love and respect for human life. That includes a murderer's life, too.

I can only wish I had the same ability as both Glenn and English blogger have -- but I just don't. Nevertheless, not loving another human being, hating her/him, despising what he/she has done, feeling repulsed or whatever else -- nothing grants me the ight to kill.

2/20/2006  
Blogger UnderCoverAnna said...

((John)) The problem I see with angry, irrational people like Jim appears to be, is that they may end up in some log cabin in the woods. Such a great deal of anger cries out for relieve of some kind ...
Actually, it may be the same built-up wrath that turns so many of our young people into cold-blooded killers roaming the streets.

2/20/2006  
Blogger john said...

undercoveranna I absolutely agree with you. The Jims of this world have spent years building up brick walls of violence and aggression around themselves. For the log cabins of their minds the only solution is violence. Jim could go beyond that but he doesn't want to. He likes to hang onto revenge and violence. All primative emotions. The same applies to any killer be it individual or state.

2/20/2006  
Blogger UnderCoverAnna said...

I didn't know it is leagal to show someone's court papers to curious relatives ...

And one more question to ((Jim)).

I've heard many family members of murder vicitims say that they want closure, and that they'll only find it by knowing that the murderer has been killed. I mean what does that have to do with punishment? As well as I understand the hard feelings of these people. The crime has been committed to their loved ones -- not to them. I wonder whether these people really find closure in going to bed at night knowing that yet another live has been terminated?
If that was the justification for the death penalty, why not return to lynching? That would surely save the tax-payer a lot of money. It would also allow some perverted people to fulfill their "unsavory" fantasies as we all know from the happy, smiling faces of the lynch-mobs in certain photographs.
Killing someone, if your own life is not immediately threatened is not justifiable. Period.

2/20/2006  
Blogger Blue said...

ACA:

You say:

'Killing someone, if your own life is not immediately threatened is not justifiable. Period.'

I believe the point that Jim & Daydreamer are trying to make (I'm sure they'll correct me if I'm wrong lol) is that clemency and 'abusive childhood's' are being used by John and others as a 'justification' for Vernon's actions. He took money to kill these people. It was a hit. There is no justification other than to support his (well documented) drug habit.

I am not a supporter of the death penalty, and I consider the discussion of it (overall) to be overly emotional and lacking in critical analysis.

However that being said - the question asked by Daydreamer was:

'Is anyone going to dispute the facts of this case as Jim has outlined?'

I have yet to see this question answered.

2/20/2006  
Blogger English Blogger (Davie B) said...

Bluebolt.

The Court has answered that by giving Vernon a stay and the right too appeal. As John has said, it is now upto lawyers and Veron and the witness's to answer questions and 12 people to decide.
My argument has been Vernon did not have a fair trial, he didn't have a true defence, I am sure if you didn't have a fair trial, you would be a bit cheesed off as well.


UnderCoverAnna said...


I can only wish I had the same ability as both Glenn and English blogger have -- but I just don't. Nevertheless, not loving another human being, hating her/him, despising what he/she has done, feeling repulsed or whatever else -- nothing grants me the ight to kill.

You do I promise you, have a look at my Blog http://thebloggie.blogspot.com/ and Email me and we can chat.

EB

2/21/2006  
Blogger john said...

Thanks English Blogger. I did answer Daydreamer's question exactly in the way you put it even better than the way I put it.But Daydreamer did not answer my questions.

2/21/2006  
Blogger UnderCoverAnna said...

"'Is anyone going to dispute the facts of this case as Jim has outlined?'

Please read the clemency petition. It is a revealing document, indeed. I assume that even the governor has developped some serious doubts about the case.

I honestly wish, there would be a solution that doesn't hurt anyone ... Honestly!

2/21/2006  
Blogger Jim Goetzinger said...

If anyone reads my first post on here, it specifically states that if I were the member of the family that had this happen to, then I would not be waiting for the death penalty, I would hunt them down myself and make it public and messy to send a message. that is what I wrote, John you have jumped me from the start, fine. Then English Blogger wrote aginst me as well. I have nothing against either of you, but no one has addressed the undisputed facts of the case. You guys are wrong again about the stay of execution, (as usual) It is a stay for the argument of Lethal injections validity, nothing more. He will never get another trial because the courts found no reasonable doubt that the courts would find a reason to see another outcome other than death. Maryland has no worries, we have 2 forms of the death Penalty, Lethal Injection and Gas chamber. this is just a little reason of hope to Vernon maybe it is a way to make him suffer like his victims , who knows. I suggest anyone who thinks I am archaic or violent to please read my original post to see who did what to whom, I'll bet some people will erase all doubt about who the professional thinks he is. we can't go back and erase what we say, but some may go back and close out their old statements..........

2/21/2006  
Blogger English Blogger (Davie B) said...

Jim, please read my reply to you. I did not attack you I used your own turn of phrase; you said you wanted to kill all assholes. That to me is totally wrong, so I said that you are one, who decides who is an asshole, any idiot who goes out killing with a gun in my book...

Jim, read all the articles about the original trial, Vernon, had a very bad defence; he was wrongly advised by his defence council. They didn't call a witness as well.
How can anyone Kill a Man who has not had a full and fair trial Jim?
I know I am against the Death Penalty, but even if I wasn't I still wouldn't kill someone who had not had a full and fair trial, in the forces its called a Kangaroo Court.

2/22/2006  
Blogger Jim Goetzinger said...

English Blogger, as I have stated in other posts here, that I have a very influential family member that is involved in this case in a roundabout sort of way, and from what was presented to the courts is that the witness of the defence(vernons) never showed in court because she could not be found, not that they wouldn't let her testify. Vernons Lawyers wanted her, but it is not the responsibility of the state to supeona them, only if they are a possible hostile witness that which can prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he was innocent. The supposed witness's store was roughly a 100feet away from the murders, and there were closer witnesses than this who saw him with the gun. I feel you are being mislead by the publisher of this site, you can see just about everything I have through court records which can be accessed by anyone.

On a seperate note, I know alot of SBS troopers thruout the spec ops community and we have polished off a few pints at various pubs throughout England, and you guys like our military have a friendly dislike to other branches. We all think we are the best. you know that. But if I had my choice of all spec operators to have my back up against in a firefight, it would be SBS, been with GIGN's, GSG-9, Mossad and others. My opinion my English cousins are the best.

2/22/2006  
Blogger Doc T said...

Hi Jim,

OK, let's give you the benefit of the doubt here until we can view the actual court documents for ourselves. Let's say there was a "hit". I viewed the video submitted for clemency and that placed some doubt in my mind. At the same time they talk about a witness in Vernon's favour. In my mind, bearing in mind that I accept, until I can view all evidence, that Vernon did do the hit, shouldn't all parties now explore these issues first and only when it had been exhausted fully, make up their mind as to Vernon's guilt? However, let's assume he is guilty and there is no doubt about it. My argument is that he doesn't need to be executed. He can be given life without parole. This is what my argument is about...not to repay murder with murder. Yet, I respect your viewpoint as one for the death penalty. You have your reasons, I have mine. And Jim, if you go out and "make it messy", they will probably arrest you and you will get the death sentence. In this, I will ALSO fight not to have you executed. In our country, the "going out making it messy" was a reality prior to us becoming a democracy in 1994. They used to put tyres soaked in petrol (gas) around a person and fire him up. The TV guys had a royal feast showing this. Yet, life went on and the message didn't even have a dent in daily life. Which leads me to the conclusion that messages in the "public and messy" way, do not work. I tell you what...can you get me a link to Vernon's court documents and I will review them and give my honest opinion as to the "undisputed facts" you talk about? On a personal note...you quote units I am familiar with...I spent 5 years with the SA Recces in Angola and 2 years as an exchange with the FFL in African ops in the 70's and early 80's. I resigned when our wars ended. Not something I would want to return to. It was too messy.

2/23/2006  
Blogger English Blogger (Davie B) said...

Jim,

Knowing what I do about S.O. if people say they are, then 99 out of 10o chances they are not. Each branch has a very tight code of secrecy, every member signs the OSA and when you get into selective services you sign a higher version forbidding telling anyone where you are or what you do, due to the nature of the service and the people who want them out of the way. That OSA declaration continues after you leave the service and is valid for life. So I am guessing they have been spinning a yarn with the flow of beer or bullshitting as you would put it.

2/23/2006  
Blogger john said...

Hi chaps ! I have just got back. Snowed up in fact! Well done Doct. A very intelligent answer to Jim. Let's test his "facts". Misled by the site operator?? I hardly think so.

Well done English Blogger. 100% right about the OSA. Jim take note. That is the Official Secrets Act. It is a serious and prosecutable offence to breach it. I too am still subject to it and it's no good winding me up Jim. I am not going to tell you anything about secret operations which I know about, so don't bother trying. You chatted to some Special Boat boys? Great. They wouldn't tell you much either,operationally, even over a beer. Their loyalty is to their unit. Period. "Need to know" - ever heard of it? What I would like to know is why you focus on military matters for your arguments regarding the death penalty. Here, you have been chatting to three ex-military service guys, all with working knowledge of special forces, who ALL (but you) disagree with the death penalty and why shouldn't we disagree? We would never shoot P.O.W.'s TIED UP (illegal) so however macho we are, we do not sanction killing someone in civvy life TIED UP, helpless and unable to defend themselves. I have taken out terrorists in combat situations. I am not weak. But I do not agree with executing civilians TIED UP. Period. No more than I would have shot a P.O.W. Once they are not shooting at you, there is no need to kill, or, of course, wound. A dead terrorist is no good to military intelligence because the dead can't tell you anything. If you think SAS are weak because they do not kill everything they see, it is because you fundamentally do not understand the role of SF. Be that as it may, I told you before that e.g.SAS are the "thinking man's" army. To go in behind the enemy lines, living off the land, for example, and more I can't put here,is macho enough. There is no reason to think people against the death penalty are weak. The opposite is true. We don't kill people tied up. Those 5 terrorist, who tried to kill my wife at 7 in the morning about 5 years ago for example. One was shooting at me. I captured him and turned him over to the Police when they arrived. I was unarmed myself. My military knowledge kept me alive and I got him. That's in the Police files. And you think I'm weak because I am against the death penalty? Think again, pal. There is nothing naiive nor weak about being against the death penalty. And please, don't be so infatuated and obsessed with the military. A professional soldier sees it as a job. It's just that. You give the impression that you think that anyone who has not been a soldier is weak. That's rubbish. There are many forms of courage. People fight cancer very bravely for example. Leave the bullets out of the argument, for heavens sake. The professional soldiers you have been talking to here are not so impressed because we have done it !! It was a job.

2/23/2006  
Blogger john said...

And Jim, English Blogger is right. The SBS boys Ha! (if they were SBS boys, that is!) would have just spun you soldiers' yarns for a pint or two. (I'll let into a secret ! I've done it myself !) Plied with a few drinks, I'll tell you anything you want to know about survival. And I really know my stuff. But details of real intelligence operations,?? Forget it, pal, no way am I going to touch it. I don't want problems. Whatever they told you, take it with a pinch of salt. Now, look at the nature of "courage." Not to say "yes," but to say "no" to cruelty. Three tough men here are saying "No" to cruelty. So why do you want to be left out?

2/23/2006  
Blogger Doc T said...

Hey John! Glad you are back! Send some snow this way, please! We are having SWELTERING days of heat here! Mid-summer!

I appreciated your posts, especially on "not killing an unarmed person". It rings true with the link to the death penalty.

You know...I yet have to find ANY person, who was a real S.O. that is NOT an abolishionist! Maybe you can explain it, more your field (Psych). Maybe it has to do with the "Code"..."no women, no children, no non-combatants"?

2/24/2006  
Blogger Doc T said...

Hey John/EB,

I made use of the opportunity to phone three S.O. Buds quickly, to get their comments of the DP. This is it:

Arthur (ex Recce): "Nah, it's not sporting. Put a gun in his hand first! You can't kill someone who doesn't have a weapon in his hand"

Nathan (ex Rhodesian/Zimbabwe SAS): "Give him his own set of lethal syringes and lock him and the DA in the same room!(hahahaha)" He "banters" just like you, John! I think it might be an SAS trait! hahahaha!!!

Koos (ex FFL): "It's against the "Code", you should know that".

Just thought you guys would enjoy their views. Have a super day!!

2/24/2006  
Blogger john said...

Hello Doct Yes I think Jim was fed a line when he was told SAS troopers are a bunch of "sad blokes" I think he said !! I had great fun !! Yes, thanks for that input. There is a code of conduct. Really brave men respect courage, not weak pointless tied up killing.

2/24/2006  
Blogger john said...

And I love the two syringes solution "On guard"!! Hahahaha!!

2/24/2006  
Blogger Doc T said...

Yeah, the SAS's were "craaaaaazy boys!" I remember the UK SAS came down to train them in Rhodesia/Zimbabwe and they stayed with us at our base. They were looney!!! We had a lot of fun together. And good fighters, no doubt! Only difference was...they, being English, liked warm beer, something you will NOT, I repeat NOT, I repeat NOT, find in SA!!!

2/24/2006  
Blogger john said...

Doct If you ever fancy some snow !! and go to England, go to one of the CAMRA (Campaign for Real Ale) beer festivals. You can enjoy 2,000 different local "warm" brews. You'll definately be having a good time after that lot !!! Yeah there was a time, I don't know if its still true, when there was a term loosely bandied around for SAS troopers being called the "Funnies" on account of troopers insular and secretive ways. But the truth is, if you couldn't banter, you were not one of the "family" !! I had a great time with them but naturally there was a real sting in the tail too !! And even in civvy life afterwards, that knowledge, a way of soldiering, and those skills come in really handy on the extremely rare occasions when life is threatened. To "know" what to do, and very quickly, in a crisis can save yours and others lives.

I still keep my hand in occasionally as well, as a "hobby." I'm a bit old for that sort of stuff now, but I was asked a while back to get some photo evidence of a violent drug group who were attacking some colleagues of my wife. Once in position, these characters were passing me from two feet away and they had no idea I was there. After getting the photos, when I slipped away, I smoothed the grass back so they would not know I had been there. The Police moved straight in afterwards and arrested the lot and used my snaps as Court evidence. Most people would think I'm nuts to do that, but I enjoyed it !! Spain is different !!

2/24/2006  
Blogger john said...

Hey Doct, have you got any update on the Morales case?

2/24/2006  
Blogger UnderCoverAnna said...

Is it true that Vernon's case has been denied a re-trial by some judge? How is that possible?
I am shocked.

2/24/2006  
Blogger john said...

Undercoveranna uff I don't know anything about this. Where did you get the information?

2/24/2006  
Blogger UnderCoverAnna said...

It's stated under the link for MEET VERNON:

""A US District Court judge denied Wednesday night a request from death row inmate Vernon Lee Evans Jr. to postpone his scheduled execution, ruling that "it ...
www.meetvernon.blogspot.com/ - 101k ...

If I click on the link, I get to his blog here, but I can't find any more ... Maybe it's some old link referring to a former dispute in his case. That's why I am asking.

2/24/2006  
Blogger john said...

Undercoveranna, I think it's probably old info., I think you are right. It wouldn't make much sense in view of the recent history of the case. My understanding is that there will not be a review until May of this year, and if that process had been interferred with, I think it would have been splashed all over MSN news. I have looked and I cannot find any such reference. Keep checking !!

2/25/2006  
Blogger Doc T said...

Hi John,

I just spoke to a friend in the USA. All that he knows is that Vernon is awaiting the hearing on his stay. Other than that, no movement. I'm sure this blog's Administrator will alert us, should there be a change.

2/25/2006  
Blogger john said...

Yes I think you are right doct. The site administrator will probably add more correspondence soon and for sure will tell us if there is a major change in the case.

2/25/2006  
Blogger Doc T said...

Hey Guys!

Check out http://borensteinslaw.blogspot.com/2006/02/death-penalty-reconsidered.html

I started debating with a public defender on the death penalty issue.

Come support me!

2/25/2006  

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