Sunday, February 05, 2006

Vernon Update

Vernon has been moved from the building where death row is housed to the building where executions take place. He was not allowed to take any of his belongings with him. Maryland schedules executions in week long blocks. The execution could take place anytime from Monday to Friday.

Read and watch more news updates here.

68 Comments:

Blogger john said...

I'm very sorry to hear this. With witness evidence he was not the killer I think this process is disgusting and injust and inhumane.

2/05/2006  
Blogger shecat said...

I'm so sorry. I mailed the Governor, but of course he doesn't care about my tiny little voice from over the sea.

Death penalty is a shame to the USA - which is supposed to be a civilized country.

2/05/2006  
Blogger john said...

Shecat, you did an excellent job. I sent my protest voice through Amnesty but a personal letter is heartfelt. After battling with psycopathic opinion from a seriously disturbed blogger today who fantasised that he could kill vernon and escape the law because he was in the army, it's refreshing to read yours.

2/05/2006  
Blogger Dennis Wise said...

I will keep the faith. Maybe Alito can intervene.

2/05/2006  
Blogger Bee said...

I appreciate the comments on this blog from those who reside OUTSIDE of the United States as they elevate the dialogue with their indignation at state-sanctioned murder. I myself am an American who sees the death penalty as the outrageous sham that is it: it is only effective in building careers of prosecutors and politicians and falsly assuring the public that they are safer.

One also should observe that these people who live in countries that do not have capital punishment also live in countries with a much lower crime rates.

Bravo to the one young lady who says, "Death penalty is a shame to the USA - which is supposed to be a civilized country."

Those who would rebut her on this blog, for the most part, are Americans who speak out of ignorance, one-dimensional thinking, prejudice, and a superiority to which they are untitled to feel because we have capital punishment and we have a President who is killing innocent Iraqi civilians.

2/05/2006  
Blogger Rogue said...

So this poor piece of shit will feel some pain before he dies. Boo hoo. Personally, I think if more dirtbags like him were put to death for the murder of other human beings, there might actually be less murders happening.

Oh, did I offend you with my insensitive comments? Well, tough shit. You might be opposed to the death penalty, but how would you feel if it were someone that you loved who had been killed?

2/05/2006  
Blogger XMAN26 said...

I'm not sorry to hear about any of this. His sorry ass took cash to kill people. He is lower than animals as animals only kill to eat, not for the pleasure there of.

2/05/2006  
Blogger Bee said...

I rest my case.

2/06/2006  
Blogger Daydreamer of Oz said...

Bee,
It's interesting that you think people are speaking out of ignorance.
When you couldn't intelligently refute my opinion you stooped to sloppy, B-grade insults.
This blog is NOT about the war in Iraq.
Anyone who feels *ashamed* to be American because of the death penalty or the war in Iraq should feel free to migrate elsewhere.
Oh yeah and the next time you're going to say people are ignorant, you might want to use a dictionary for words such as 'untitled'. It's really not strengthening your argument.
I reside in Australia.

2/06/2006  
Blogger Jesse said...

Good luck Vernon. Peace be with you.

2/06/2006  
Blogger donprocto said...

Buh-bye Verne. Feel the burn!

2/06/2006  
Blogger Ceridwen Devi said...

We hope that a last minute reprieve may still come. It is sad that this is happening. Vernon will be in our prayers today. We saw a documentary on Johnny Cash last night, and so to the Governor of Maryland we say "San Quentin, I hate every inch of you!"

2/06/2006  
Blogger Stitches77 said...

It's quite amazing to me the energy and emotion people put into trying to save wretched murderers, and hatred toward institutions i.e. San Quentin (above) and America (most of them).
Now if you would only use all that energy in a more constructive manner, say the sex predator problem and helping children, you might could actually accomplish something.

2/06/2006  
Blogger john said...

Stitches 77 who is to say that some bloggers are not active in also defending the rights of victims in the areas you mentioned? In our case, my wife who is a lawyer for the Spanish Government and myself a practising psychologist are vigourously active in defending all manner of cases with equal energy, sometimes resulting in changes or amendments in the law.

2/06/2006  
Blogger thierry said...

I think that many European people are with you, Vernon.
USA State proove again with killing people and immoral camp like Guantanamo Bay again that he ist not so civilised that he say and don't really care about human rigth!

sorry for my english.

We think about you from France.
and hope for you.

2/06/2006  
Blogger john said...

er rogue, we do not have the death penalty in Europe That means the state does not kill people yet we have significantly lower murder rates than in the U.S......... Got the point yet?

2/06/2006  
Blogger Stitches77 said...

To John,
actually murder rates in America continue to decline while the UK continues to rise. The gap is narrowing.

It was wrong of me to imply that all defenders of murderers don't in turn do good works in other areas. So I retract that statement and will hereby rephrase....

In my experience.....in general, those I have had discussions with, those I have read the writings of, those I have watched interviews with, those who defend the lowest evil-doers and takers of innocent lives........they also defend child molesters and baby killers.

2/06/2006  
Blogger gsryoga said...

Roque, my man: rageful and ignorant are no way to go through life. Research in the United States has clearly shown for years that capital punishment is not a deterrent to murder. In fact, states that have no death penalty -- such as Wisconsin, Mass., Maine, Minnesota, Michigan, Alaska and Hawaii have lower murder rates per capita (that is per 100,000 people) than the states which execute such as Texas, Florida, Georgia, Alabama and the others.

2/06/2006  
Blogger behindthescenes said...

The Maryland Court of Appeals just granted a stay (Monday morning.)

2/06/2006  
Blogger Bee said...

Yay!!!!!



www.wjz.com


Court Stays Evans Execution

Mary Bubala
Reporting

Save It Email It Print It
(WJZ/AP) Baltimore, MD WJZ.COM has learned that The Maryland Court of Appeals has stayed this week's scheduled execution of convicted murderer Vernon Evans.

The stay was based in four issues. Two deal with Evans' representation at his trial, one cites a University of Maryland
study that found racial and geographic disparities in the state's application of the death penalty, and one claims the Division of Corrections didn't follow the state's rules when it established the procedures for executions.

Evans, 57, was scheduled to be executed this week for the 1983 contract killing of Scott Piechowicz and his sister-in-law, Susan Kennedy.

Evans' attorney Jeffrey O'Toole tells The Associated Press that Evans was informed of the ruling this morning and was reported to have said "praise God."

His co-conspirator, Anthony Grandison, is also awaiting execution for the crime.

The Maryland Court of Appeals set arguments in the case for May.

A post on convicted murderer Vernon Evans' blog said he had been moved from death row to the building where executions take place. A Division of Corrections spokesman says Evans was moved -- as is standard procedure before executions.

A death warrant calling for Evans to be executed went into effect Sunday and the execution could've taken place any time this week.

Stay with Eyewitness News for complete coverage. WJZ'S Mary Bubala will report on Eyewitness News at noon.

Also log on to WJZ.COM for constant updates on this still breaking story.

2/06/2006  
Blogger Laura said...

Hurray for Vernon! I am so glad you got a stay. I was so scared that you wouldn't.

2/06/2006  
Blogger TheMuseGuy said...

Many of us who are opposed to the death penalty are not necessarily focused on saving individual convicts as we are focused on trying to upgrade society as a whole. I believe that capital punishment creates celebrities out of all the principles involved--the convicted murderer, the attorneys, the judges, the victims and the victims' families, even the governors. It's all part of the great drama-making machine of the American media. I think it's more show business than crime-fighting. By keeping these cases in front of everybody's attention, all it does is incite hatred and fear.

2/06/2006  
Blogger Bee said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

2/06/2006  
Blogger Bee said...

Reposted due to syntax errors:

But Muse,
isn't it important to show that the people on death row are real human beings with families and loved ones?

To show their humanity correctly counters the politicians and elites who wants executions and who want to execute quietly with no one knowing that person being executed is a human being so he/she can continue to be caricatured as a monster.

Yes, the media follows cases because of the "if it bleeds, it leads" mentality, but if no one protests at the prisons, if no one publicly speaks out, and if people don't fight to stop each execution by revealing the true human beings that people on death row are, then we will not abolish the death penalty.

2/06/2006  
Blogger TheMuseGuy said...

Bee, your points are very well taken. To get more to where I would like to see society be, we'd have to use the media power to challenge the current system. Movies such as Green Mile and Shawshank Redemption, while fiction, do just that. But news stories about the human side of convicted murderers (or even felons for that mattter) are few and far between compared to all the fiction and nonfiction media showing one dimensional bad guys.

2/06/2006  
Blogger john said...

Stitches 77 Thanks for your "amendment" that was nice of you. I'm sorry to hear the U.K. figures are getting worse at the moment. Let's hope it is temporary. But I think you'll find that the statistics across Europe as a whole suggest life is "safer," in Europe, generally speaking. I think one problem that I believe does contribute as well is that it is more difficult to obtain firearms in Europe than it is in the States, but there are disturbing rises in access to black market weapons that get into the hands of Mafia groups. In the South of Spain, this has been a recent problem but the Spanish Police are working hard to deal with this.

2/06/2006  
Blogger Sam's Lil Sis said...

Bee just because someone doesn't think the way you do DOES NOT mean they speak from ignorance. Ignorance is believing that the only opinion is yours. Ignorance could also be considered your remark to Oz where you said " You are a pig" . Insulting someone when you can't disagree like adults is not only ignorant, it's childish. I don't agree with many here, but I have never resorted to name calling and never will because the fact remains we all believe what we believe no matter what anyone says, so calling me or someone else a name probably wont make them change.

2/06/2006  
Blogger ISLAND MONKEY said...

Murder rates in the UK are actually on the decline now...

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-2011068,00.html

One of the main reasons for the increases in previous years has been the wider availability of guns in the UK.

2/06/2006  
Blogger Blue said...

Muse & Bee,

I think muse has hit the nail on the head when he refers to taking the death penalty debate to an intellectual sphere & taking the human element out.

Bee - I (personally) object to your statement about making the people on death row 'real human beings' I don't doubt they are. But there are some examples that are detrimental to the cause - eg Ramirez - a man who tortured, raped and killed elderly people & children. Championing him - or in this case a man convicted of paid hits is not helping others come to any 'logical' conclusion about the death penalty.

I think the individual criminals need to be taken out of the equation & focus placed on (as muse said) furthering society as a whole. By raising individual cases of people on death row, the debate becomes overly emotional and less logical.

2/07/2006  
Blogger Daydreamer of Oz said...

Island Monkey,
I find it interesting that the title of the article you refer to is, 'Clarke asks why public doesn't trust crime figures' & the article says that there is an enquiry to take place regarding how the statistics are compiled....Could it be because the stats are wrong?

2/07/2006  
Blogger Bee said...

Oz and Liz,
A man was almost murdered by the state of Maryland today and you can only whine about so-called "netiquette?????".

You mock the real racism that exists on Maryland's death row (which is NOT an opinion, it is fact). And yes, that is Toby Keith-style IGNORANCE and bigotry on your part whether you are from the US or not. And yes, there are racists and close-minded bigots in Australia (and every other country) as Arabs and Muslims in Cronulla beach witnessed first hand two months ago, so I am not surprised if you are not American. But the Europeans and folks from S. America seem a bit more enlightened on this site.

But this conversation should be put to an end as this site is not for us, it is for Vernon Evans to talk to those who ask him questions, which I am happy that he will be able to do now that he is still alive. I am happy to now end my two day "blogging" (that's what you kids call it) career.

2/07/2006  
Blogger Daydreamer of Oz said...

Bee once again feels the need to slam me, calling me a bigot because I disagree with her. The reality of the situation is exactly as a stated in the comment which fueled bee to call me a pig. Did anyone else bother reading that report but me? I once again quote from the original report:
'By itself, the offender's race does not play a clear role in the way cases are handled'
AND
'It would be incorrect to conclude that these results point to racial animus in the death penalty system'
It is a FACT that the report concluded that the race of the defendant was NOT the primary determinant in whether the death penalty was sought by prosecutors.
If you're going to come on here & shoot your mouth off calling people names, at least educate yourself enough to know the difference between the two words opinion and fact. It would also be helpful if you went and read the research you purport to know so much about.

2/07/2006  
Blogger Daydreamer of Oz said...

Regarding BlueBolt:
I'd love to know how you keep the human element out of a debate over human life.

The only way that you can do that is to make no distinction between different types of homicides & making sweeping generalizations which are flat out wrong.

There is a difference between killing an intruder entering your home & hunting down, torturing & slaughtering innocent people. That is why the term justifiable homicide along with varying degrees etc exists in the justice system-to differentiate.

Finally I just wanted to say what a truly brilliant comment Bee made about how open-minded and *enlightened* the people in South America are (eye-roll).....this is a place where you don't necessarily have to have a trial. In some parts of South America it's actually acceptable for people to stone you in the street!

2/07/2006  
Blogger Sam's Lil Sis said...

No one is arguing that there is racism with the death penalty, well not me anyway , because if you kill a caucasian you are more liely to get the death penalty, black or white, than if you kill a minority. And yes Bee, I am complaining about your A"netigqueete" because you slam people then when they rebut you, you try to turn the tables on them like its their fault you 2 don't see eye to eye. And unless you are in my shoes Bee, you have no right to tell me especially how to feel about the death penalty, maybe you should read my blog, get a little info and see why i feel how i feel, although I believed in it before and now after what happened to my brother, but nonetheless, you are not God, or anyone's higher power, so why do you think that I , or anyone else should be sooo happy Vernon got granted a stay. If your happy, then be happy, my feelings aren't changing, but at least i can say I never killed anyone and also that I have not had to slam or call anyone outside of their name to state my point. So before you post as if "greater than thou" , maybe you should re-read some of your posts and think about why you can't accept anyone who disagrees with you?

2/07/2006  
Blogger Sam's Lil Sis said...

Oh and yes i had spelling errors, I'm human so please lets not waste numerous posts on it...lol... people have already wasted enough time here. I'd like to have a non-insulting conversation with anyone that opposes the penalty as to why they feel someone shouldn't lose their life if they take someone elses? Just a question, so please no insults, just adult conversation as to why you feel the way you feel. I am not interested in quotes from political or law figures, just people's personal opinions, without the rudeness.

2/07/2006  
Blogger English Blogger (Davie B) said...

Liz,

It's quite simple.

How can a person be human and not forgive? I am not saying it is easy, but it opens up life and gets you away from depression and revenge, both are awful feelings.
God sent his son to die for everyone's sins. If a person asks forgiveness, then we forgive them, it is what makes us better than the animals. God knows their true heart, and the final argument is with that person and God.
I have been wronged and I know murder, I have lost 2 friends, neither is worth another dying for, as what will it solve? Nothing!!! another life wasted.
What do you call an assassin who accuses an assassin?
Why is it that the USA is the only supposed 1st World country with the death penalty and the one with the highest murder rate?

2/08/2006  
Blogger john said...

To english blogger. Apart from the religious aspect (I'm not religious) I totally agree with you. I also had the experience of my brother murdered by the same person who nearly killed me and left me with epilepsy from the head-beatings but there is no way I would demand the death penalty. But there again I had the advantage of group psychotherapy which gives options. The death penalty is just one big "projection" of cruelty. Most rapists were raped in childhood. That has been well established. "Choices"? That very much depends on the degree of individual psychological damage done to perception in the mind of the criminal. If the criminal is "taught" that the only way to communicate is violence and that people are objects not people with feelings, the defence of altruism goes out of the window. Executing the victim of projection achieves nothing. All are victims in that scenario. Widespread group psychotherapy in schools to "save" child victims right at the beginning would be far more productive and hold projection in check and I have been arguing this with educators for a long time. The problem is, is that we are a rare breed. There are too few psychotherapists to go round. But if you teach psychologically damaged children that there are verbal options for anger expression and that other people have feelings too and are not objects, the crime rate, I would argue would fall significantly. Psychotherapy does not work for everybody, and it would be naiive to suggest it does, but psychotherapy in schools would offer at least the chance to learn to deal with the intense pain and rage of parental abuse that can also project from generation to generation. And i return to my original point. The death penalty is a form of projection.

2/08/2006  
Blogger ISLAND MONKEY said...

Recent reductions in violent crime, including murder, in the UK have been atributed to new licensing hours allowing pubs to open more freely.
It appears to be reducing binge drinking, identified as a major cause of violence, and a peculiar problem in the UK compared to much of mainland Europe.
“Arrests for violent crime fell 47 per cent last Christmas against 2004 - a statistic which has been attributed to the Licensing Act.”
The Indpendent.

2/08/2006  
Blogger john said...

To Island Monkey Yes I agree with your point, In Spain, we do not have restricted drinking hours and families do not manifest widespread drunkenness at all. The only law that has been passed here and applied recently regarding drinking is one that curbs "boterons" or young rowdy groups of mostly young students drinking in the streets in the early hours. But drinking-related violence is infrequent here except in the South of Spain where English hooligans....Need I say more !!!

2/08/2006  
Blogger Sam's Lil Sis said...

English blogger, I respect yur opinion, but at the same time, I still stand behind mine. In a sense it is another life wasted, but , then again, didnt that person decide that their life should be wasted when they killed someone? Didn't they decide they have no future aspirations when they commited a crime with such a steep punishment?

2/08/2006  
Blogger john said...

Liz as a genuine question of care for your feelings of your awful experience did you get offered any kind of support for your anger? I had a similar experience to you and for me psychotherapy in group saved my life at the time. ( the mechanism is, the group does the work, like mirros of feedback and the psychotherapist makes connections, accepts transference and controls scapegoating etc.) If you have not had interventive therapy, you might find it helpful. You can ask your local doctor for a referral if you feel you would like more information.

2/08/2006  
Blogger Sam's Lil Sis said...

I have been to bereavement support meetings in group and in private, have been to bereavement chats online, I write in my blog, and I have a supportive husband and a few close friends I open up to. I think therapy is not what I'm desiring right now, i think i have a personal therapy team in a way, I am lucky because I have many people I can chat with, so when I don't feel comfortable with any family or friends, I still have the licenses therapist. And writing has helped, but i have been told that my feelings are normal, although we don't discuss the death penalty.... although I would never ventrue to tell anyone that their opinion is not normal, because normal is different for everyone.

2/08/2006  
Blogger john said...

Liz, I'm glad you have a support network. The only thing I would add is that hospital psychotherapy in group goes futher than support. It's tough hard work but it can be very worthwhile. A thought for you to consider.

2/09/2006  
Blogger john said...

Liz ! I missed a point ! I'm not suggesting your feelings are not normal. They are very normal and the reason I suggest a psychotherapy group run in a hospital is because a hospital group is more likely to be conducted professionally. A group does the work but it helps if the psychotherapist is a consultant psychotherapist and they are more often found in hospitals than elsewhere. I believe currently there are only about 100 consultant psychotherapists in the whole of the U.K.
Best wishes John.

2/09/2006  
Blogger English Blogger (Davie B) said...

Liz,
If someone commits murder they are either (a) a person with deminished capabilities (b) Insane
Now in my mind, these people are ill, what they need is help, not to be murdered. They need to go to a secure hospital first then when/if cured, they need to spend the rest of there time behind bars. Life should mean life.

I cannot see how killing someone can ever achive anything. Everbodies life is worth something.

2/09/2006  
Blogger Sam's Lil Sis said...

English blogger, you cannot assume that people who murder are in a diminshed capacity or insane, that's just too simple. There are people who murder who are very intelligent, people who murder who carry on "normal" lives, and, unfortunately, here in the U.S, many younger people, younger than myself, feel that violence is like a status symbol, from teardrop tattoo's around the eye to gangbanging. It is hard to classify all killers into those 2 categories as we are not psychologists here trained in diagnosis the brain. I believe something is wrong with people who kill, but not necessarily that they are in a diminshed capacity to the point where they can't use logic. There was a cop here who killed his ex-fiancee and her new fiancee, also cops. I know for a fact police go through some psychological testing, and I don't think a cop is of diminshed mental capacity, so I'd like to think that people are more accountable than what you are making them.

2/09/2006  
Blogger English Blogger (Davie B) said...

Liz.

A Cop kills his/her ex fiancé. That is jealous rage. (Diminished responsibly)
Gangs kill, over territory, over girls, boys, over drugs, 99.9% of the time Gang members are under the influence of drugs. (Diminished responsibility) We get that here, believe it or not!!! Gangs with guns shooting each other.
A man walks up to a stranger and knifes or shoots him for no reason, he is mad.
Say Ted Bundy for instance, a very capable man, he could hold convocations, mixed well in company, proved to be control freak who was actually insane.

To take a life is no mean feat, it takes a special kind of person Liz, Cops are just as susceptible to mental illness as anyone, in fact I would say a Cop is more likely to suffer from mental illness in their life if they do use their gun at work. I know I could never come to terms with taking someones life, even if it was my job to serve and protect.

2/10/2006  
Blogger john said...

Liz I am a professional psychologist and I tell you "intelligence" and "logic" have little part to play in "choices" in such killers. In fact a number of psychotic people and mentally ill people are very cunning. I have seen this many times in mental hospitals.It has everything to do with the degree of psychological damage either perceptional or mental illness. Paranoia for example is a mixture of the two, and is responsible for many murders. Narcisism can mean there is no defence of altruism. People are not seen as people, they are "objects" in that mindset. Criminals can be "narcistically damaged." And of course, there is the role of projection which I have explained extensively on this website. I do accept your point about gang rolemodels. A soldier kills. Why would he want to be a soldier if not for role modeling? One thing is a victim's emotional response to crime, another is insight and understanding into why it may occur.

2/10/2006  
Blogger Jim Goetzinger said...

Shecat you live in a protective little cacoon don't you?

Oz I love your posts and please keep going with your comments, I love them.

John is a moron with a PHD (piled higher and deeper) in psychobabble. he wouldn't know a troubled person if they sat on his face, he is the problem with the military today, less shooting and more coddling. Thank God he has no idea about super specialized units that operate outside his knowledge that continue to keep his sorry ass safe from the bad guys.

Oh John by the way, I was in the US Navy asshole not army as you have once again ass-u-med.

2/19/2006  
Blogger john said...

Oh going round the back door of argument Killer Grots? Funny ! So brave ! The Navy? Hahahahaha!! and you pretend to be "in the thick of it!!" I love it piss head. You would never have got into the Army. When I had a laugh and read out your bizarre ramblings to an old SAS mate of mine he said you'd have been RTU'd as Mentally Unstable. You are the "moron"! You've never seen incoming fire in your life not judging from your "It's not a pleasant feeling" comment you pathetic little weed. You, like your opinions, are a joke.

2/20/2006  
Blogger john said...

"It's not a pleasant feeling" auw diddums gay sailor boy.

2/20/2006  
Blogger john said...

Hahahaha!! I was out with SAS patrols when you were still a little egg Hahahaha!! I've seen more action than you've had hot dinners on your little boat !! What a weed you are "OOO it's not a nice feeling" Hahahahahaha!!

2/20/2006  
Blogger Jim Goetzinger said...

awwwwww shucks John you got me, I thought I could never get your goat. Do we need to go back to Psychobabble 101 to learn how not to let the supposed patient get your feathers ruffled!!!

Don't forget the facts which are undisputable....

He will die just a brief delay.
His witness can't be found again, damn now where did she go.
DNA need I say more.............

2/21/2006  
Blogger Jim Goetzinger said...

Oh and by the way RTU is not used by the Navy for mentally unstable.
Section 8 and a medical discharge is used. And if you were MU then you definately wouldn't go back to your old unit thats for sure. But then again wouldn't expect an old bloke like you to know. Since you were never in the service. you and your buddies keep watchin those old Sean Connery war movies and leave the fighting men and women of our countries keep you safe at nite,.......ok

2/21/2006  
Blogger john said...

I was in the service buddy for six years. Now get back to the debate, eh, I never said RTU would apply in the Navy. Difficult to RTU when you are 100 miles out in the middle of the Pacific Ocean !! The banter stops when you cut the insults. Simple as that old chap. I can banter all day. I had six years of practise. And SAS is more than you imagine. I can take the piss out of you all day long, but I am not here to discuss military matters. You brought it up, not me. Now finish.

2/22/2006  
Blogger UnderCoverAnna said...

"It's interesting that you think people are speaking out of ignorance.
When you couldn't intelligently refute my opinion you stooped to sloppy, B-grade insults.
This blog is NOT about the war in Iraq.
Anyone who feels *ashamed* to be American because of the death penalty or the war in Iraq should feel free to migrate elsewhere.
Oh yeah and the next time you're going to say people are ignorant, you might want to use a dictionary for words such as 'untitled'. It's really not strengthening your argument.
I reside in Australia. "

Neither are substituting ridiculous jabs for valid arguments, ((Daydreamer)).
You like to tell people they can leave, if they don't like the American system. That is about the most hackneyed answere anyone can possibly use.
People in this country have the right to voice their opinions and speak their minds AND REMAIN in this country. What you suggest is exactly what communist regimes practiced: either concur or leave!
I get the feeling that some people do like wallow in their misery to feel important.
As I said in other posts, their are many people suffering terrible losses. They have to cope with these losses without having anyone to kill for revenge.
To be honest, I find it a bit repulsive to cite sorrow and grief as a higher motive for killing than greed, for example.
And this is not disrespecting the vicitims of a crime -- just stating my opinion about their relatives who bathe themselves in self-important whining about their sufferings.

2/22/2006  
Blogger Stitches77 said...

undercoveranna said: And this is not disrespecting the vicitims of a crime -- just stating my opinion about their relatives who bathe themselves in self-important whining about their sufferings.

Oh my.

Yes, we certainly are all entitled to our own opinions. I do believe, however, that you've just breached the bounds of propriety with that statement.

2/22/2006  
Blogger UnderCoverAnna said...

To stitches:

I should have added ... "and don't give a dram about what suffering and pain they will cause the relatives of the executioner's victims."

I don't think that honesty is improper. It is hard to take at times, I understand. Especially hard for those who expect their own feelings being paramount to anyone else's and tell others they cannot understand what it means to be in their situation, while they themselves, however, claim the right to dismiss Vernon's sufferings as a child as not worth mentioning. How do they know what went on in Vernon's psyche, if they haven't experienced the same traumata he did? How can they dismiss these events as bogus claims by the defendant? The pity has to be on their side only -- nowhere else. That is the impression they left with me. Do only they have the right to feel traumatized and therefore be entitled to take a life?
I don't think so. And I say so.
And again, you successfully evaded the issue at hand by trying to teach me what I am not supposed to say.
I think there is nothing more offensive than openly asking for the life of another person being taken because I have the right to, while condemning Vernon for having done the same. This is simply absurd! And absolutely selfish!
I am sorry.

I would like to repeat that I have no love in my heart for killers, and some of them do not deserve to live or rather had never been born. But as soon as I am willing to take another's life I am no better than they are. I don't see any difference, for example, in a drug dealer's revenge killing and someone elses revenge killing. Just don't see it!

2/22/2006  
Blogger Blue said...

ACA:

I understand your comment about the 'revenge' perspective of some who are proponents of the death penalty.

Yes, Vernon did have a traumatic childhood. If he had killed in self defense, or in response to this trauma then this would be a valid defence.

HOWEVER: The crime he committed was a hit. He took money to kill 2 people. He committed this crime in a state where the death penalty is known to apply.

As far as 'pain & suffering' for the 'victim' of the executioner goes - consider this. The victims did not have a chance to say goodbye to their loved ones, to fulfill their potential as humans. The pain for those who loved these 2 people (the TRUE victims) will live with them forever and I cannot speak for them regarding what they would consider to be 'closure'.

Vernon was NOT a victim in this. He has had the opportunity to speak with his family, repent (and so he bloody ought to) and to get a whole bunch of people riled about the issue. He is only a victim in so far as he chooses to be or people like many on this blog choose to make him.

Yes he has suffered - but this isn't about him & his suffering - HE TOOK MONEY TO KILL PEOPLE!

Regardless of the outcomes of the review certain facts have yet to be disputed:

His dna & fingerprints were on the murder weapon. He was there. He admitted taking money to kill these 2 people. He didn't know that one of the people wasn't the person he was supposed to kill.

Until these facts are refuted - the evidence remains that HE TOOK MONEY TO KILL PEOPLE. A choice was made - albeit a bad one.

2/22/2006  
Blogger UnderCoverAnna said...

((Bluebolt)), your arguement that Vernon took money for killing his victims is a double-edged sword. One could argue that the executioner makes a living of killing people whether they are innocent or not. Now, that is disgusting!

There is no way out: it is not right to grant one human the right to kill when denying it to another one.

2/23/2006  
Blogger Stitches77 said...

Anna after I first read that statement you made and picked my jaw up off the floor, I thought perhaps you didn't realize how it sounded. But since obviously you did intend to mock the grief of innocent victims, I can assure you that your attitude does not endear folks to your cause. Considering that a small minority of Americans think as you do, I would venture to guess that you won't be having much luck gaining supporters. To compare the laws of society with criminal acts is incomprehensible. Perhaps compassion shown all the way around and not just towards criminals might help. I wonder how other death penalty opponents feel about this? Is it acceptable to act so contemptuous towards the victims of crime?

Bluebolt is oppsed to the death penalty, and yet she seemed outraged by your words as well.

On the other hand Anna, you're right, I or anyone else can't tell you what to say or not say. You have freedom of speech just like the rest of us. If you choose to talk like trash, knock yourself out.

2/23/2006  
Blogger john said...

Stitches 77 What undercoveranna is saying is that murder doe not resolve murder !! And I haven't found your answers to the questions I asked you !! As a medical professional, would you like to comment on The British Medical Association's condemnation that the levels of anaesthetic used by executioners would be too low for medical operations and that therefore the people being executed are indeed being tortured to death by chemicals that burn and cause excrutiating pain. I also asked you if you have had experience in mental hospitals, as you claim I cannot be a psychologist / psychotherapist because I am too tough. I gave you a very in depth explanation and excuse me if I have missed your answer, but I have not found one. You will notice that Jim has stopped insulting me and joined the debate in a more mature way so far. Perhaps I am not as bad as you think... I never excluded him. I "invited" him to join us, but in a way that others can work with. "Asshole" is not an argument. It is a sound off.

2/23/2006  
Blogger Stitches77 said...

You didn't see a response John, because I never answered your question. But, the answer is yes I have mental health experience. And the reason I say you are not a psychologist is not because you are 'too tough' it is because you are too stupid. You wrangle your way around and don't even know that you've given yourself away.
As far as the death of the criminal, oooo I'm just crying for them. That's what I have to say about the British Medical Association.

2/23/2006  
Blogger john said...

Stitches 77 Fine. As insults are your only answer I will treat your reply with the contempt it deserves. I am a qualified psychologist and I do not mind what you think. "Stupid" I am not. But your reply tells me what you are.

2/23/2006  
Blogger john said...

Undercoveranna, notice the quality of your critisisers. I wouldn't take too much notice of them if I were you. They are not even worth a reply.

2/23/2006  
Blogger UnderCoverAnna said...

To John:

It becomes clearer and clearer to me that my impressions of the pro-death people are not too far off. They claim rights for themselves that they deny others, punish others for killing, but demand to be excepted themselves from the same rules.

So, where does the executioner stand in this argument? He is being paid for what he does? (By TAX Dollars on top of that?)
And if societal laws always had been morally impeccable, then the Nazi regime, the Apartheid regime, the Idi Amin regime, the Hussein regime must have been righteous, too. Isn't that so?

(On the side: Could it be that some posters here post under different id's?)

2/24/2006  
Blogger john said...

To undercoveranna I totally agree with you and I have suspected for some time that "stitches 77" could well be "Expert RN" Same mold even if I'm wrong. Makes me laugh the way the way they do worse than what they accuse others of !! Hahahaha!! This one is well stitched up !!

2/24/2006  
Blogger jess said...

Hi all that have seen me write before...John i just read what ya said the 24th of feb and agree with you about stichess 77 sounds like "expert Rn" but what we haven't seen this person say is how they feel about the death penalty (maybe we have and i just didn't read it) but how do you feel stiches????

Another thing any one written vernon a question and not got a response??????

3/20/2006  

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